How - even in America - does anyone manage to convince himself he owns stuff that falls from the sky like manna? The English took ours for years, on the grounds that no-one could possibly own it - because they needed it, you see.
You're still missing the point. Its an ethical exercise not a search for resources.
Also, while clean drinking water is vital (the number of people killed annually by water borne pathogens in the non-developed world is staggering) the US has cleaner water now than any time in the previous 50-60 or more years.
Hell, there was a river boat that capsized in the Thames (pre 20th century) and the people drowned because the fumes from pollution over-came them not because they couldn't swim. You wouldn't want to brush your teeth in it but its clean enough not to be killed just by standing near it.
The Cuyahoga no longer catches on fire. You can eat fish from all of the great lakes.
When's the last time you heard about acid rain?
Lastly, where I am from springs pop out from bluff walls and make little streams and pools. Very cold, sweatened by limestone and wonderful to drink. So far I am not dead.
People may aquire property by theft but they may also do so legally. Theft is wrong.
Wealth is not necessarily a result of theft - though poverty may be.
Private property is not theft.
"Tak(ing)" your fair share from some one without consent IS theft.
"Cops" are not serfs of anyone.
You've got a fairly lofty and bankrupt bit of self-righteous Marxism going on in your assertions but they are just that; assertions. They are not true except in your belief rather than in practice.
How do we know? You probably need a better car than what you have. Why not steal some rich guys car as that is your "right". While you're at it steal all his stuff and give it to human beings. That's your "right" too. Problem is that theft will land you in the hoosgow. Why? Because stealing is illegal whether you rob a begger or a baron.
Water... the water from wells on my land is my water. No other may, without my permission enter my land and take it. That's how we own water in America. That the Brits had you over a barrel is a historical point of interest but not relevent to whether or not water resources may be owned. They may.
How do you distinguish between the two? Receiving stolen goods, for instance, is a crime, and a great deal of wealth comes from land. Who gave any individual the right to land, and how? What is the difference between conquest and robbery with violence? And so on: it is obvious, really - ALL property is the result of someone's criminality, and those who get it are at very least receivers.
See above.
Simple assertion. To take from thieves is not only legal but morally extremely proper.
Tell that to the Germans under Hitler - or the British miners, come to that. They have no union rights and must do what their masters tell 'em. Do you prefer the words 'slaves'?
I am not brainwashed, certainly. People like you who believe what their masters tell them tend to be, don't you think?
Nobody needs a car where I live, and mine is almost literarily worthless - what we need is decent public transport and something to stop the greedy and selfish from destroying the world. Everyone has the right to self-defence, as you know. Look what your nuclear profiteers are doing to Japan, for instance, and what the oil-profiteers did to your coast. Why should we allow criminals to kill our children? As I have said many times now, you cannot 'steal' from thieves - you just take it back.
How could you possibly own land? Who gave it you? Napoleon? Hitler? Washington? God? You are threatening thirsty people with violence, I gather. The truth begins to emerge, eh? And incidentally, I am a 'Brit', thank you.
your original premise is faulty - everything following from it is as well
again, go take your neighbor's car and see how accurate your notion of private property is.
I don't need my neighbour's car, nor does my neighbour. Only doctors need cars. We need decent public transport and an end to global warming. Theft is what makes people rich. It is perfectly simple. The Americans stole the land from the Native people and the Work from the black people, and the capitalists continue to steal everything but what's needed for replacement from the others. Nothing faulty there, surely - simple fact. Europe was built up on stolen gold from Peru and Mexico, and went on from there. Etcetera.
I live in Texas. Its about 30 times the size of Wales. You can drive to Paris faster than I can drive across Texas. Americans need cars.
My point remains. If property is theft and you are merely "taking back" do so in broad daylight in front of a police station from an unwilling holder of stolen property. See how your argument works with the judge.
Besides, if all property is stolen you cannot possibly take back your property - you can only resteal property.
In either case your argument is absurd because your premise is absurd.
The gold taken from Peru et all actually plunged europe into a fit of inflation because of all the excess gold. Europe existed long before going to Peru. It was built on hard work and belief in private property. The states in europe that disavowed private property collapsed.
Different issue: What would you find less morally repulsive?
You have a starving family.
1. You steal bread to feed them only to have them go hungry again a short time later.
2. You steal bread for yourself and then leave them.
3. You kill your starving family and then eat them for sustenance.
You have a starving family.
1. You steal bread to feed them only to have them go hungry again a short time later.
2. You steal bread for yourself and then leave them.
3. You kill your starving family and then eat them for sustenance.
an interesting exercise... lol
" It is said that Drakon himself, when asked why he had fixed the punishment of death for most offences, answered that he considered these lesser crimes to deserve it, and he had no greater punishment for more important ones."
You don't 'steal' - together with other people who are being starved you do as people have always done (they called them 'bread riots' but it was a regular traditional procedure) - you take back the food you need communally and distribute it at a price people can afford, paying that to the exploiters. That's the traditional answer. As you will gather, I prefer something more lasting.
Yeah I would probably steal to feed my family, I've already given blood to pay the electric bill!
Most of the people who organised 'bread riots' in the past worked on farms, I suppose. The rich don't owe you a living any more than you owe them anything: you take only what is yours as a worker: i.e. everything OR what you need to live depending on how much you like tugging your forelock.
Our inclination to steal and justify it is the very basic essence that makes our society shameful and biased towards the rich. In my view stealing cannot be justified but its the lesser of the evil.
I've been to very hard times due to poverty but my morale never let me do it. Now I'm an online math tutor and earning my livelihood
I've been to very hard times due to poverty but my morale never let me do it. Now I'm an online math tutor and earning my livelihood
Been there done that.
I would have to say yes. I've done it before. About two years ago after my grandmother died my mother who had been working in a city 5 hours away from home to support our went through a period of depression and resigned from her job. It wasn't too bad at first, it was nice having mom around, you know more housework got done etc. She was receiving unemployment and I had a job. But after about six more months I got laid off. Ok, no big deal, she still had unemployment, we got on TANF, public aid etc. So we lost cable TV and a few other nice things you know nothing important. Then it got worse. The food stamps started getting messed up. with one month receiving the correct $150 and the next only getting $90. We made due with this for a short time. But by January unemployment had been payed erratically, heating bill and electric bill was well over $2000 unpaid (thank God for LIHEAP) and what little money I brought in was going to keeping a roof over our head and diesel in my truck. We went about 2 weeks with nothing but water and a crackers. Eventually me, my brother, and one of my best friends who is a very accomplished shop lifter said "**** this we're getting a good meal one way or another." We left at about midnight because I knew that if my mother knew we were stealing she would have whipped our asses and hidden my keys (she still doesn't know where all the food came from. I told here I spent my last dollar on a scratch of ticked and won $100). Anyways we drove to the only Wal-Mart in the area which is about 30 minutes away. We grabbed a shopping cart and a bunch of empty wally world bags, loaded the shopping cart up with meats, breads, canned goods etc. and walked to an empty lane in between the only two cashiers on duty and put all the food into the bags. We then walked towards out the door and straight to the truck. I know my adrenaline was rushing as we calm and casually walked out the door because that was the first time I have ever stolen (and so far the only time). What we stole fed our family for a full month. And right when the food started to run out my mom's unemployment get straightened out, she got a whole months back pay and had started working a good full time job and she got my brother hired there. We did what we had to do because we could not get anymore help (we had already hit our limit for the local food pantry) and I'm damn proud we did it.
I would have to say yes. I've done it before. About two years ago after my grandmother died my mother who had been working in a city 5 hours away from home to support our went through a period of depression and resigned from her job. It wasn't too bad at first, it was nice having mom around, you know more housework got done etc. She was receiving unemployment and I had a job. But after about six more months I got laid off. Ok, no big deal, she still had unemployment, we got on TANF, public aid etc. So we lost cable TV and a few other nice things you know nothing important. Then it got worse. The food stamps started getting messed up. with one month receiving the correct $150 and the next only getting $90. We made due with this for a short time. But by January unemployment had been payed erratically, heating bill and electric bill was well over $2000 unpaid (thank God for LIHEAP) and what little money I brought in was going to keeping a roof over our head and diesel in my truck. We went about 2 weeks with nothing but water and a crackers. Eventually me, my brother, and one of my best friends who is a very accomplished shop lifter said "**** this we're getting a good meal one way or another." We left at about midnight because I knew that if my mother knew we were stealing she would have whipped our asses and hidden my keys (she still doesn't know where all the food came from. I told here I spent my last dollar on a scratch of ticked and won $100). Anyways we drove to the only Wal-Mart in the area which is about 30 minutes away. We grabbed a shopping cart and a bunch of empty wally world bags, loaded the shopping cart up with meats, breads, canned goods etc. and walked to an empty lane in between the only two cashiers on duty and put all the food into the bags. We then walked towards out the door and straight to the truck. I know my adrenaline was rushing as we calm and casually walked out the door because that was the first time I have ever stolen (and so far the only time). What we stole fed our family for a full month. And right when the food started to run out my mom's unemployment get straightened out, she got a whole months back pay and had started working a good full time job and she got my brother hired there. We did what we had to do because we could not get anymore help (we had already hit our limit for the local food pantry) and I'm damn proud we did it.
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Count on Walmart to have bad security and nobody working. :giggle: Good thinking heading out at night, that receipt check would of messed you up during the day.
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