Zimmerman NEEDED to Carry Gun - Here's Why!!!

Protectionist · Oct 22, 2013

William said:
We agree on this. People like me are just astounded that the law worked the way it did in this case and that's why this case isn't going to go away for a very long time. What he did was obviously legal (in Florida) but it was also clearly wrong. That kind of conflict between legal and wrong is going to draw discussion for a long time.

I don't see what you are saying was "wrong". Wrong ? WHAT was wrong ? As a longtime security professional and former field supervisor of security guards and operations manager, I would have given Zimmerman a raise for a job well done, if he had been working for me.

As for the Zimmerman case going away, it already has. Nobody's talking about it any more. except this one rehash you started yesterday. You make yourself appear foolish by giving credibility to an empty issue that only even existed at all, because a couple of old, has-been race hustlers decided to use it as a ploy, to resurrect their long-lost fame and notoriety (Al Sharpton & Jesse Jackson), and some spineless politicians feared race riots (which never came about). This whole thing would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.

William · Oct 22, 2013

Protectionist said:
When one has done security work (both with and without pay) for 38 years, as I have, and in supervisory positions as well as ordinary guard jobs, it is easy to spot when someone is just making things up as they go along, as you appear to be doing now. Your statement here is so convoluted I can hardly even address it. The observe and report protocol is not a "model", it is the standard security MO for every security operation in America. As for public or private property, this has no bearing. Security MO is approximately the same either way, and insurance doesn't matter much either.

I'm going to disregard everything else you posted and focus on this since you just accused me of making things up and then resorted to posting a "chat room resume" as some sort of proof that you have authority in this discussion.

Simple yes or no question here: was Zimmerman operating on public or private property? Someone with your "years" of experience in the "security field" should have no problem answering this question with either a 'Yes' or a 'No'.

Polydectes · Oct 22, 2013

William said:
I'm going to disregard everything else you posted and focus on this since you just accused me of making things up and then resorted to posting a "chat room resume" as some sort of proof that you have authority in this discussion.

Simple yes or no question here: was Zimmerman operating on public or private property? Someone with your "years" of experience in the "security field" should have no problem answering this question with either a 'Yes' or a 'No'.

Well, it isn't that simple to say. Does the gated community own its streets and sidewalks? More importantly was there a guard at the gate? Did the property have public access? It is a bit tricky. But its really nether here nor there. Zimmermann had an articulated affirmative fear that his life was in danger. He its justified in using deadly force.

William · Oct 22, 2013

It is that simple to say. It is a yes or no question.

William · Oct 22, 2013

Polydectes said:
Well, it isn't that simple to say. Does the gated community own its streets and sidewalks? More importantly was there a guard at the gate? Did the property have public access? It is a bit tricky. But its really nether here nor there. Zimmermann had an articulated affirmative fear that his life was in danger. He its justified in using deadly force.

btw, I'm not disregarding your points, I'm just focusing on "Mr. 38 Years of security" first, then I'll be happy to discuss your points with you because you haven't called me a liar

Polydectes · Oct 22, 2013

William said:
It is that simple to say. It is a yes or no question.

I can't see how it being private or public property is relevant.

William · Oct 22, 2013

It is relevant, trust me, that's why I'm asking "Mr. 38 Years of Security" to give me a yes or a no. I'm assuming by this time he's googled this and now realizes the jam he's in when it comes to claiming that Zimmerman was a security worker.

Polydectes · Oct 22, 2013

William said:
It is relevant, trust me, that's why I'm asking "Mr. 38 Years of Security" to give me a yes or a no. I'm assuming by this time he's googled this and now realizes the jam he's in when it comes to claiming that Zimmerman was a security worker.

If somebody legitimately threatens your life it's irrelevant who owns the property.

William · Oct 22, 2013

Polydectes said:
If somebody legitimately threatens your life it's irrelevant who owns the property.

I agree with this in a general sense but this is not the point I'm making. I'll get back to this after I've dealt with "Mr. 38 Years of Security".

Polydectes · Oct 22, 2013

William said:
I agree with this in a general sense but this is not the point I'm making. I'll get back to this after I've dealt with "Mr. 38 Years of Security".

Chasing white rabbits huh?

William · Oct 22, 2013

Polydectes said:
Chasing white rabbits huh?

It does appear so. I honestly didn't expect anything from him but I had to give him a chance to show the world exactly how much worth was behind his "38 years in security". His refusal to answer even though I know he's been in the thread speaks volumes. Anyway, he's out of time, if he were going to grace us with his "expertise" he already would have.

Responding to your point about self-defense...I agree. That's regardless of whether or not your state has stand your ground laws, we've always had the right to defend ourselves even with lethal force if necessary no matter where we are, unless you're on someone else's property without permission...then the rules are a little bit different.

William · Oct 22, 2013

For everyone reading the thread, Protectionist drastically modified his post (#42). His original post #42 was several paragraphs long, claimed 38 years of experience in the security field, and accused me of making things up, among other things. The original post #42 was nowhere near as non-confrontational as the new post #42 so if you're wondering why I targeted him, it's because he asked for it.

William · Oct 22, 2013

Protectionist said:
I don't see what you are saying was "wrong". Wrong ? WHAT was wrong ? As a longtime security professional and former field supervisor of security guards and operations manager, I would have given Zimmerman a raise for a job well done, if he had been working for me.

Now I'll respond to your new and improved post #42. You already know what I think of your "security experience". I see you've updated your chat room resume to now include "operations manager". What is it with you and Internet Cred? Anyway, I don't believe you were ever an operations manager either, for any company in any industry. The reason I don't believe it is because if you had been, you would be extremely familiar with the liability property ownership comes with and would have focused on that in this discussion if you really believed that Zimmerman was "doing security work".

I eagerly await your next post where you give yourself yet another Internet resume upgrade to 'former Director of Homeland Security".

Protectionist · Oct 22, 2013

William said:
I'm going to disregard everything else you posted and focus on this since you just accused me of making things up and then resorted to posting a "chat room resume" as some sort of proof that you have authority in this discussion.

Simple yes or no question here: was Zimmerman operating on public or private property? Someone with your "years" of experience in the "security field" should have no problem answering this question with either a 'Yes' or a 'No'.

Why do you ask a question that I have just finished answering in another post ? He was operating on private property, and so what ? Private or public, security is security. And I don't have "some sort" of proof that I have authority in this discussion, I have a Florida Class D Security Officer license (havng completed the Florida 40 hour course for it) + years of experience. I also have held a Florida Security manager (MB) license as well.

Polydectes · Oct 22, 2013

Protectionist said:
Why do you ask a question that I have just finished answering in another post ? He was operating on private property, and so what ? Private or public, security is security. And I don't have "some sort" of proof that I have authority in this discussion, I have a Florida Class D Security Officer license (havng completed the Florida 40 hour course for it) + years of experience. I also have held a Florida Security manager (MB) license as well.

He wasn't really security he was neighborhood watch. You shouldn't need a license to do that.

Protectionist · Oct 22, 2013

William said:
It is relevant, trust me, that's why I'm asking "Mr. 38 Years of Security" to give me a yes or a no. I'm assuming by this time he's googled this and now realizes the jam he's in when it comes to claiming that Zimmerman was a security worker.

Trust you ? Why do you have any experience in this filed ? You got a security job ? Got a license ? Got anything ? NO, I don't trust you because you are talking nonsense, about something you don't know anything about.

I am in no "jam" whatsoever. Z was a security worker, as is anyone who goes out and does security, or who does it from inside a building, as well. And I don't see any yes or no question. What are you talking about ? I've already answered and refuted everything you've said.

Protectionist · Oct 22, 2013

William said:
Now I'll respond to your new and improved post #42. You already know what I think of your "security experience". I see you've updated your chat room resume to now include "operations manager". What is it with you and Internet Cred? Anyway, I don't believe you were ever an operations manager either, for any company in any industry. The reason I don't believe it is because if you had been, you would be extremely familiar with the liability property ownership comes with and would have focused on that in this discussion if you really believed that Zimmerman was "doing security work".

I eagerly await your next post where you give yourself yet another Internet resume upgrade to 'former Director of Homeland Security".

HA HA. Maybe you haven't read any of the MONTHS of posts that I've posted on this subject. All of this has already been covered by me and people who dealt with it at the time it should have been dealt with (not now). Why you are coming along only now, and making an utter fool out of yourself over this, I have no idea. One thing is for sure. I have the licenses I said I have, I have the experience and knowledge that goes with it, and you have no clue of what you're talking about.

What do mean by "new and improved post #42" ? I don't recall changing the post in any way. And "chat room resume" ? What's that ? As for liability property ownership (words misused), I guess you mean the insurance that property owners carry. Yeah, I've mentioned it many times in the past posts on this subject - look them up. So what about them ?

Looks like you don't like the idea of talking to somebody with real credentials and experience and knowledge on this issue. Didn't know that when you came barging in here empty-headed, and now you attempt to cover your embarrassment by pretending that you don't think I have what i say I have. well I do, and whether you like it or not, that can't be changed. The only thing than CAN be changed is people buying into your unschooled rants, because of my deciphering them as what they are. Unschooled rants. :giggle:

Protectionist · Oct 22, 2013

Polydectes said:
He wasn't really security he was neighborhood watch. You shouldn't need a license to do that.

When this actually was an issue, and we went through thousands of posts (in this forums and others), we knocked around this terminology thing about the word "security". Anyone can use whatever words they want. If you do what is protective of a place, that is doing security, whether it's called NW, licensed guard, night watchman, safety officer, loss prevention officer, access control, clerk, etc, tc, or even a night desk clerk in a motel, who does periodic security rounds.

Polydectes · Oct 22, 2013

Protectionist said:
When this actually was an issue, and we went through thousands of posts (in this forums and others), we knocked around this terminology thing about the word "security". Anyone can use whatever words they want. If you do what is protective of a place, that is doing security, whether it's called NW, licensed guard, night watchman, safety officer, loss prevention officer, access control, clerk, etc, tc, or even a night desk clerk in a motel, who does periodic security rounds.

All he was doing is watching. He wasn't officially working in any security capacity. He wasn't protecting anything or defending anything. He was simply there to witness.

Protectionist · Oct 22, 2013

Polydectes said:
All he was doing is watching. He wasn't officially working in any security capacity. He wasn't protecting anything or defending anything. He was simply there to witness.

No, he was there to witness (ie. observe) AND report. That is the foundation of security (any security) > Observe & Report. And you are wrong. He was protecting and defending his apartment community. That's why he was there.
That's the main idea. And he did have some "official" standing, as he was appointed by his homeowners association, not just acting on his own.

PS - another facet of his position in addition to O & R, was to challenge suspects (as he did with Trayvon Martin), another fundamental part of doing security work. (similar to checking ID badges by access control guards)