Abraham Lincoln: The Best American President

Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
Lincoln belongs to the days when foreigners admired America and saw it as a source of hope. By going along with mass-mobilisation, alas, he destroyed the world he seemed to embody and transferred power from those who admitted they regarded other people as property to those who pretended they didn't and treated them like shit. That said, 'states' rights' that include slavery needed to be destroyed, and with all his hesitation, he did it well. He was, I'd guess, the last 'official' American who clearly stood for human decency, and that's not to be sniifed at.

He arrested the entire state gov't of Maryland and deposed the gov't of Kentucky, placing a relative in charge as a military dictator. He ordered Gen. Sherman to go raping an pillaging and wiping out American cities. He openly called for the conquest of Africa and the deportation of all black to America's African empire. He openly advanced white supremacy in his political speeches. I could go on but I think you get my drift.
 
Aug 2010
862
0
Without a doubt JFK.
Read "JFK and the Unspeakable: Why he Died and Why it Matters."

Yes it cost him his life 'cause the military (Curtis LeMay, shudder) industrial (Bell Hellicoptor, Brown and Root) complex were determined.

all he did was screw up a meeting w/Kruschev which lead to the Cuban Missile Crisis, snort rail and bang Marilyn Monroe
 
Mar 2011
746
160
Rhondda, Cymru
He arrested the entire state gov't of Maryland and deposed the gov't of Kentucky, placing a relative in charge as a military dictator. He ordered Gen. Sherman to go raping an pillaging and wiping out American cities. He openly called for the conquest of Africa and the deportation of all black to America's African empire. He openly advanced white supremacy in his political speeches. I could go on but I think you get my drift.

Quote the 'raping' order, please. Were there then, and are there now, more than a tiny minority of non-racist Americans? If you get into wars, you do what you need to do to win them, surely? As far as I am concerned, he was against slavery, and he stopped it, and he didn't try seriously to deport the black people - though, fair play, the idea of sending back all the settlers to where they came from might have its points - except from the point of view of the old folks at 'home', of course. :)
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
Quote the 'raping' order, please. Were there then, and are there now, more than a tiny minority of non-racist Americans? If you get into wars, you do what you need to do to win them, surely? As far as I am concerned, he was against slavery, and he stopped it, and he didn't try seriously to deport the black people - though, fair play, the idea of sending back all the settlers to where they came from might have its points - except from the point of view of the old folks at 'home', of course. :)
May I just add this. I had a elderly black friend that was told by his grandfather who was a slave until he was 16, "Lincoln did not really care about the slaves." He said there was a time that anyone caught with anyone black on their property would be arrested. So they were driven from the only homes they ever knew. And were roaming down the roads like cattle for days.

Of course I was not there. But this old gentleman seemed truthful in all dealings I ever had with him.
 
Mar 2011
746
160
Rhondda, Cymru
May I just add this. I had a elderly black friend that was told by his grandfather who was a slave until he was 16, "Lincoln did not really care about the slaves." He said there was a time that anyone caught with anyone black on their property would be arrested. So they were driven from the only homes they ever knew. And were roaming down the roads like cattle for days.

Of course I was not there. But this old gentleman seemed truthful in all dealings I ever had with him.
In my experience people - some of them -will tell you anything that they think will please you. There is a lot of historical writing that suggests that President Lincoln was far in advance of his time, but one of the key points, surely, is that if there are four million unpaid workers, the paid ones will be vastly worse of than if all labour has to be paid wages. You didn't have to be a holy angel to want slavery abolished - just unbrainwashed.
 
Jul 2011
1
0
mumbai
Also, since the US was even more of a fascist, racist police state than it is now, they were at even greater a disadvantage.
 
Aug 2011
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"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." ABRAHAM LINCOLN

Yeah, President Lincoln was obviously a serious right-winger with views like that.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." ABRAHAM LINCOLN

Yeah, President Lincoln was obviously a serious right-winger with views like that.

Lincoln was our only actual socialist president (the Republicans of the 1860s were a mix of socialists and liberals ironically, how times have changed). He was still an ass and he should of been shot sooner. Saddam could have taken lessons in killing his own people.
 
Apr 2010
105
0
Sorry but good ole abe wasnt the best ever. He was a good president though because he wanted to preserve the union . He really didnt care about the slaves and even wrote a letter saying if he could he would ship them all back to Africa.
The best president (if there was one) was JFK because he dared to stand against war, even though it cost him dearly for his stance.

I am not sure I agree that JFK was the best ever. In fact I would put Lincoln far ahead of the JFK playboy who had little to offer apart from his looks and charisma.

Woodrow laid the foundations of what today is the United Nations. No small feat. Roosevelt built the Panama canal, no small feat. But Hoover built the dam and got the US out of a miserable economic state by doing so. So probably the cigar goes to him.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
JFK playboy who had little to offer apart from his looks and charisma.
Far from it. He was a believer in strong and stable currency, arguably the last President to actually try to act on that belief. He was a good leader and some of his stances were very important to this country, although I believe a lot of them have become misinterpreted over time.

Woodrow laid the foundations of what today is the United Nations. No small feat. Roosevelt built the Panama canal, no small feat. But Hoover built the dam and got the US out of a miserable economic state by doing so. So probably the cigar goes to him.
The UN is no big feat either :p

Most people believe Hoover made things worse not better and he didn't exactly get us out of anything considering the Great Depression started.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
I am not sure I agree that JFK was the best ever. In fact I would put Lincoln far ahead of the JFK playboy who had little to offer apart from his looks and charisma.

Woodrow laid the foundations of what today is the United Nations. No small feat. Roosevelt built the Panama canal, no small feat. But Hoover built the dam and got the US out of a miserable economic state by doing so. So probably the cigar goes to him.
Are you saying we don't have the best, most caring, and smartest president now?:eek:
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
Most people believe Hoover made things worse not better and he didn't exactly get us out of anything considering the Great Depression started.
I had a grandmother that blamed Hoover so much for the Great Depression she refused to have a Hoover vacuum cleaner in her house.:p She was always "old Hoover this and that.:D
 
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