Illegal to fail students if they believe in certain myths as opposed to facts?

Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
so why force the belief that evolution.

the only thing we know is that we don't know. seculars like evolution believe because it supports their religion.

In an attempt to help our youth not end up thinking as you seem to.

By educating people on factual data, we may be able to temper the damage inherent in an uninformed generation.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
evolution fact, it's a belief, that's part of a religion.

if it was a fact you could prove it I want to see some proof. I don't care for your metaphor.


Just type in "evolution facts" in google....likely the 122,000,000 results will contain what you seek.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
In an attempt to help our youth not end up thinking as you seem to.

By educating people on factual data, we may be able to temper the damage inherent in an uninformed generation.

how rude.

I'm not going to talk to you until you can be civil.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Aw shucks....I done butt hurt someone by using that pesky logical thought process again.
 
Mar 2011
746
160
Rhondda, Cymru
It is extremely wicked of these Stalinist teachers to insist that two + two is not five, as we Pentequadralists believe!
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Your so called proof isn't proof, it's just a correction of data that you use to support your faith in evolution.

Christians have the Bible to support their beliefs, you have some collection of arbitrary data that you have manipulated to fit your religion.

Lol, ok... I suppose gravity isn't fact either and neither is germ theory... To you Aristotelian gravity and miasma theory are on the same grounds as those respectively too, huh? If not, please explain why with evolution you reject the data and the facts and bring it down to the level of religious belief whereas with gravity and germ theory you don't bring it down to inferior/obsolete theories.
 
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Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
Lol, ok... I suppose gravity isn't fact either and neither is germ theory... To you Aristotelian gravity and miasma theory are on the same grounds as those respectively too, huh? If not, please explain why with evolution you reject the data and the facts and bring it down to the level of religious belief whereas with gravity and germ theory you don't bring it down to inferior/obsolete theories.

These all have proof, your religious belief does not.

I don't reject the data, there just isn't enough to conclude anything.

I simply said I don't know, any conclusion is a wild guess.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
Lol, ok... I suppose gravity isn't fact either and neither is germ theory... To you Aristotelian gravity and miasma theory are on the same grounds as those respectively too, huh? If not, please explain why with evolution you reject the data and the facts and bring it down to the level of religious belief whereas with gravity and germ theory you don't bring it down to inferior/obsolete theories.

gravity isn't a theory, nor are germs whatever that means. why get so condescending?

you insist your belief is a fact, Christians insist God is fact, you're exactly the same.

I stand by my statement, I don't know.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
gravity isn't a theory, nor are germs whatever that means. why get so condescending?

you insist your belief is a fact, Christians insist God is fact, you're exactly the same.

I stand by my statement, I don't know.

I am not insisting anything. I am saying evolution has a strong basis of facts and data behind it. It is YOU who rejects the data and thinks the disproven hypothesis of creationism stands on a level ground with the theory of evolution. Also germ theory and gravity are still theories- go look at the literature. The real problem here I think is a misunderstanding in what the term theory means in the context of science. Theory is not synonymous with hypothesis.

Now tell me this though, what about all the proof we have of evolution? The fossil record that shows gradual change in species as we go deeper into the sedimentary layer (as well as through carbon dating); the anatomical relationships between various organisms; genetic mutation which we see BEFORE OUR EYES; microbial evolution which we see BEFORE OUR EYES, etc.
 
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Feb 2013
1,219
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just past the moons of Jupiter
I am not insisting anything. I am saying evolution has a strong basis of facts and data behind it. It is YOU who rejects the data and thinks the disproven hypothesis of creationism stands on a level ground with the theory of evolution. Also germ theory and gravity are still theories- go look at the literature. The real problem here I think is a misunderstanding in what the term theory means in the context of science. Theory is not synonymous with hypothesis.

Now tell me this though, what about all the proof we have of evolution? The fossil record that shows gradual change in species as we go deeper into the sedimentary layer (as well as through carbon dating); the anatomical relationships between various organisms; genetic mutation which we see BEFORE OUR EYES; microbial evolution which we see BEFORE OUR EYES, etc.

the proof of what you speak, isn't proof of the origin of life, it is just something life does.

Creation, which is a belief, not my belief, is about the origin of life, if the two were to coexist, creation would come first. Life can't evolve if it doesn't exist. These two topics have nothing to do with each other.

I am tolerant of opposing view points, especially on something I don't know.

Bacteria may evolve but it had to be created first, weather this creation was by God or some other process, it's created then it evolves. everybody believes in creation, they just don't agree on how. Unless you think life sprang forth from nothingness, which is a belief also.
 

myp

Jan 2009
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50
the proof of what you speak, isn't proof of the origin of life, it is just something life does.

Creation, which is a belief, not my belief, is about the origin of life, if the two were to coexist, creation would come first. Life can't evolve if it doesn't exist. These two topics have nothing to do with each other.

I am tolerant of opposing view points, especially on something I don't know.

Bacteria may evolve but it had to be created first, weather this creation was by God or some other process, it's created then it evolves. everybody believes in creation, they just don't agree on how. Unless you think life sprang forth from nothingness, which is a belief also.

The origin of life is different than evolution.

Even with the origin of life though, we have proof and evidence on one side more than the other. For example, the biochemical properties of the first prokaryotes and how those relate to the primordial soup or the endosymbiotic theory and the evidence there of how eukaryotes arose.
 
Feb 2013
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174
just past the moons of Jupiter
The origin of life is different than evolution.

Even with the origin of life though, we have proof and evidence on one side more than the other. For example, the biochemical properties of the first prokaryotes and how those relate to the primordial soup or the endosymbiotic theory and the evidence there of how eukaryotes arose.

creation is different than evolution, why do people use evolution to try and disprove creation.

something unknown had to have happened in that primordial soup, because substances just coming to life seems very un scientific
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
creation is different than evolution, why do people use evolution to try and disprove creation.

something unknown had to have happened in that primordial soup, because substances just coming to life seems very un scientific

What do you mean by creation is different than evolution? If people want to comfort themselves by telling themselves that the creation story fills in the void of what science has not discovered yet, then fine, they can do that. But the point of the OP is that they are trying to go farther than that- they are rejecting scientific fact and replacing it with fairy tale when they say things like dinosaurs existed with humans or that man did not evolve from other primates, etc. And to add to that, they are not trying to force schools to not penalize students for getting test questions wrong based on their wrong beliefs.

As for the primordial soup and life- remember that life is defined by humans to begin with and biologists let alone the rest of the world still don't agree on 1 definition of life.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
What do you mean by creation is different than evolution? If people want to comfort themselves by telling themselves that the creation story fills in the void of what science has not discovered yet, then fine, they can do that. But the point of the OP is that they are trying to go farther than that- they are rejecting scientific fact and replacing it with fairy tale when they say things like dinosaurs existed with humans or that man did not evolve from other primates, etc. And to add to that, they are not trying to force schools to not penalize students for getting test questions wrong based on their wrong beliefs.

As for the primordial soup and life- remember that life is defined by humans to begin with and biologists let alone the rest of the world still don't agree on 1 definition of life.

Wrong beliefs?

people are allowed to believe what they wish. You can disagree but they shouldn't be penalized for their beliefs.

It isn't a schools place to say which beliefs are wrong, separation of church and state.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Wrong beliefs?

people are allowed to believe what they wish. You can disagree but they shouldn't be penalized for their beliefs.

It isn't a schools place to say which beliefs are wrong, separation of church and state.

I can say I believe that 1+1=3, but that doesn't mean I am not wrong. If you are making a state-church argument, then how are you for this nonsense? This is a pro-religion bill trying to influence our public, state-ran school systems with it's religious teachings...
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
I can say I believe that 1+1=3, but that doesn't mean I am not wrong. If you are making a state-church argument, then how are you for this nonsense? This is a pro-religion bill trying to influence our public, state-ran school systems with it's religious teachings...

this isn't a pro religious bill, it just isn't anti religion.

yes you can believe what ever you want, our first Amendment gives us that right.

you can disagree with those beliefs, but it isn't the schools place to say which are wrong
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
you can disagree with those beliefs, but it isn't the schools place to say which are wrong

What is the point of testing in schools then? If I can go in and argue that 1+1=3 and then turn around and say that is my belief and they can't fail me for it, then what is the point of testing? This kind of silliness only holds our country back.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
What is the point of testing in schools then? If I can go in and argue that 1+1=3 and then turn around and say that is my belief and they can't fail me for it, then what is the point of testing? This kind of silliness only holds our country back.

so the First Amendment holds us back?

in this case people stood up for it. people not doing that problem with our country
 
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