Actually, I personally couldn't care less if a fundy christian family gets upset when the child they placed in public schools fails due to the dogma. They made the choice to have the child educated in a system that we (society) have developed and based on non dogmatic fact.
Expecting this system to change the way everyone else is educated because something in it might offend a childs belief is not the way it works, or is intended to work. For this reason the church has developed it's own education system, and just as a non religious family can decide where the child is educated so can the religious.
It is not a vindictive or biased move to fail a student when they cannot do the work or understand the material. Otherwise we might just as well give everyone an A for showing up.
To fail them for not accepting that one thing? It shouldn't be that much of the grade. Math is far more important, history, reading, and writing. Biology. these things should count more than one section of one science class.
There isn't, not at least in Louisiana. Definitely not in the nation, check the bill of rights if you don't believe me. Not sure if there is in Florida, I doubt there is.
Education is a privilege at least in this nation. I don't think it should be a right.
No one is proposing such a thing:
" law that could ban Biology teachers from failing students who argue that humans co-existed with dinosaurs."
But they might fail a class, and honestly if someone actually believes this dribble....they need to fail. Somehow I do not think humans would have done very well against a Velociraptor.
Still don't think that should fail you, if you get a failing grade because of it, as well as poor performance, then out is the poor performance that costs you. If a kid is an otherwise straight A student thus shouldn't fail them, if it does it is being used as a punitive apparatus. There is so much more in natal science then just evolution.
As far as the dinosaur business I have a feeling that is a generalization. I hear some fundamentalists say that satan put those bones in the ground to convince us that God isn't real. It isn't saying that dinosaurs coexisted with man, or that they never existed, just a difference in their purpose, I think the evolutionists don't speculate on reasons or purposes. Is it preposterous? To me, yes, I don't think creation and evolution are really at odds, evolution is the method of creation if you ask me, one explains the other. But prove satan didn't put those bones in the ground to make us atheist. That would be kind of hard to do. So i don't mess with people that believe such things. That is a losing battle, they created a supernatural universe wide conspiracy to convince themselves that the Bible is scientifically accurate, this isn't a person bogged down in fact.
If they are attempting to pass a law to protect children from punitive curriculum there is an issue that needs to be addressed. personally I think on the church side of things but there is a separation of church and state. Taxpayers have the ultimate say, they buy the school they pay the teachers they are the government and if officials usurp the people then they have no place in a democratic government. Imagine it the other way around, it was not that long ago. And science took a beck seat in science class to mythology. This isn't the forcing of science into the back seat but weather or not we have a government of the people by the people and for the people or of some man gods that know best. I hope Louisiana votes against this law but I also hope that it isn't vindictive and punitive. In college I came across several professors who were, I do not know how public school operates in the US, as I attended a Jesuit school in south Africa. but if it is anything like college it has some weak spots. I have a feeling that public schools are in very bad shape in the United states because several of my classmates that I attended freshman year in college with were terribly unprepared for college I was taken aback when American citizens, even professors didn't know the bill of rights. I feel fantastically formate that I had a better education but I fear for any potential children I may have at the state of our public schools. And the law we are purposing is this.
The proposed law actually does not force someone to be failed for what they believe....instead it tells teachers they can no longer fail someone for getting an F. And as far as the state of our public schools....they are indeed somewhat limited, leading to unprepared students.
The problem I have with this law is that is only makes it worse, basically you are telling the teacher that it is okay to let these children ignore proven reality even though it is the teachers job to do the opposite.
The evolution discussion is about where you draw the line between fact and fiction (creation), so while it doesn't encompass the big picture, it basically serves as one of many examples that represents it.
And then after that you said that bacteria do replicate and evolve before our eyes. Now clearly that is, even in your eyes I presume, a higher level of being sure than some fairy tale, right? As a society we have to decide what is fact and fiction or more fact and less fiction if we are to have schools that teach anything. Evolution by leaps and bounds is fact compared to creationism and even a lot of other things accepted as fact.
Biology should definitely be taught in schools and if you are to teach biology, you have to teach evolution because it is a vital part of it. Evolution is a huge part of our modern understanding of bio.
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The teachers job is not to do the opposite, the teachers job is to guide the student and equip them with the ability to make up their own mind based on this, out that.
Polydectes, I think your biggest issue here is that you are looking for the absolute truth when all we can really know through the lens of the human experience is probably the relative truth. Depending on the level of scrutiny you put on something, you can't even be sure 1+1=2 - all you can be sure of is that you exist. But as a society it hurts us tremendously to put such a high level of scrutiny on everything to the point where we halt progress because of it. Now this isn't to say we should not question everything because we certainly should, but then we should also take our best (relative) methods and use those methods to learn about this universe (discover how it works - facts) and then to build on that knowledge always having that grain of salt somewhere that it might be disproven. We can try to disprove it, but it has to be disproven with some method other than just questioning it because it is not definitely the absolute truth, a truth we can probably never know.
Evolution is creation, evolution is simply an ongoing process, creation has to do with its effects. So your statement contradicts itself
Replication isn't evolution and it doesn't happen before your eyes.
And once again thus discussion isn't about evolution or creation and the boutin that they ate separate this is about law and curriculum. I frankly an not interested in continuing the discussion about this any further. You will never convince me that you know for a fact anything regarding evolution. I really don't care how you feel about it or what you think. I wool not budge from my position regarding it.
Schoolroom has little to do with biology.
You do not know what evolution is. I suggest you go read about it some
Also, what do you think should be taught in the schoolroom?
You do not know what evolution is. I suggest you go read about it some
Also, what do you think should be taught in the schoolroom?
You don't know what creation is.
Kids should be taught how to find out facts and judge them for their selves. You know prepare them for life, just a thought:giggle:
School can't just teach methodology. In fact, it can't teach methodology without examples. What do you propose they actually do in schools? This is quite a crazy statement to say schools should not teach any substance at all. How do kids figure out what area of study they are interested in if they don't have the opportunity to explore outside of school in your scenario? Don't we want well rounded kids? How can you not teach them about something as vital as biology?
As for creation- I know perfectly well what it is- it is a theory of intelligent design. There are altering viewpoints on it from young earth to old earth and those than accept evolution. I also know it has no methodology behind it other than being a fairy tale written by humans like you or me a long time ago. You just have NO IDEA what evolution is
For someone who is not sure of anything, you sure are sure of a lot of things
Being such a great skeptic that you let it halt all progress in society is meaningless to you? Wow.
No, we don't need well rounded kids, well rounded kids means not prepared for college, why on earth is that a good thing?
p
No intelligent design is intelligent design. Creation is the act of creating. Fire creates ash plants create energy through photosynthesis, thanks for proving my point.
For someone who knows all, I had to explain the meaning of the word create to you:giggle:For someone who is not sure of anything, you sure are sure of a lot of things
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