Worst presidents of all time

myp · Apr 17, 2009

I am not sure how many of you use Facebook, but the LivingSocial application is becoming quite popular nowadays. It allows people to pick their top five for virtually anything. I recently installed it and picked my top five worst US Presidents and thought it'd be a good topic of conversation here on Political Fray. Anyway, here was my top 5 worst United States Presidents as well as a brief explanation of why I chose them:

1) Barack Obama- I know it is still early for him, but his policies are very similar to those of FDR's and without a sound currency to fall back on, that could be very dangerous. Furthermore, a lot of his actions are unconstitutional as well.

2) FDR- The New Deal extended the Depression and made it worse and it left us with programs that are creating huge problems today- Fannie and Freddie and social security to name a couple.

3) Lyndon B. Johnson- "The Great Society" was a huge push towards socialism and although everything he wanted didn't go through, his time in office really pushed this country away from capitalism and we are seeing consequences of that now.

4) Woodrow Wilson- He created the Federal Reserve, tried for a world governing body in the League of Nations, passed the Clayton Act, re-imposed the Federal income tax...

5) George W. Bush- Started the Iraq War, supported Greenspan's low rate policies, passed the Patriot Act, increased the size of government...

So who do you all think are the worst five and what do you think of my selections?

The Parakeet · Apr 17, 2009

I think someone's been reading Atlas Shrugged too much

.

Obama - Well...he's a big spender. Let's see how it shakes out. Would like to see just what you think is unconstitutional.

FDR - Get's a freebie for winning WWII. New Deal definitely didn't extend the Depression. It might not have helped, but it didn't hurt much (separate thread though...let's not derail this one). Social security was also a good idea at the time. It only got bad when we started treating the interest from it as free money for the government.

LBJ - Not as familiar with him. Pretty lackluster and tied to Vietnam, so not one of the best at least.

Woodrow Wilson - Clayton Act was a good step for the free market. Income tax was better for the free market than high tariffs. League of Nations was a half-decent idea that should have stopped WWII. Fed Reserve...well that's another thread.

GWB - Let's let things shake out for Iraq. Agree on other points, but it was more of a gamble that lost. Don't know if that makes him the "worst"

---
My Picks

1) James Buchanan - Picked up the country's reigns at a time when we needed strong leadership. A time when civil war seemed imminent...and he did absolutely nothing.

2) Andrew Jackson - Pushed for Indian Removal even though the Supreme Court declared it unconstitutional. Kill the National Bank primarily to screw with Henry Clay. This directly caused a severe recession in 1837. This also killed the presidency of his friend and successor Martin Van Buren...which is kinda of a dick move.

3) Pretty much every president for a 20 year period after Lincoln - They all just let Lincoln's reconstruction plans fall apart. This let strong racism and inequality gain a strong foothold in the South.

4)Nixon - *cough* Watergate *cough* - Sorta disgraced the presidency and granted validity to conspiracy loons for years to come.

5)Jimmy Carter - An inexperienced fence sitter who did nothing...sorta feel sorry for him though.

myp · Apr 17, 2009

The Parakeet said:
I think someone's been reading Atlas Shrugged too much .

Sorry for being a believer in capitalism and freedom? Anyway, I have never actually read Atlas Shrugged.

The Parakeet said:
Obama - Well...he's a big spender. Let's see how it shakes out. Would like to see just what you think is unconstitutional.

A lot of the liquidity injections and stimulus spending was unconstitutional- not to mention a lot of things left over from the Bush era.

The Parakeet said:
FDR - Get's a freebie for winning WWII. New Deal definitely didn't extend the Depression. It might not have helped, but it didn't hurt much (separate thread though...let's not derail this one). Social security was also a good idea at the time. It only got bad when we started treating the interest from it as free money for the government.

So fighting a war where thousands of Americans died is a good choice as long as we win it? And as for social security and the New Deal- I'll save those for other threads like you said (making the New Deal one soon though because it is a big misconception.)

The Parakeet said:
Woodrow Wilson - Clayton Act was a good step for the free market. Income tax was better for the free market than high tariffs. League of Nations was a half-decent idea that should have stopped WWII. Fed Reserve...well that's another thread.

The Sherman and Clayton acts have really stalled the growth of tech and companies. As for income tax, you know what the better thing for the market is? No income tax at all, just cut spending to match it.

The League of Nations would never have stopped WWII because just like the United Nations it would never have any real power without an army.

The Parakeet said:
GWB - Let's let things shake out for Iraq. Agree on other points, but it was more of a gamble that lost. Don't know if that makes him the "worst"

By number 5 I meant he was 5th worst. I am going with Obama as the worst.

---

The Parakeet said:
5)Jimmy Carter - An inexperienced fence sitter who did nothing...sorta feel sorry for him though.

I really think Carter is underrated. It is probably surprising to hear that from a conservative, but I really think Carter really got a raw deal. He did have his flaws and he was no where near the top, but I would put him in the middle of the pack somewhere. His presidency was just rough because of the economic problems that he was left with, but he did the right thing in appointing Volcker, who was willing to raise rates in order to cleanse the markets even if it meant a rough temporary period (unlike Bernanke and Obama who don't want to do the right thing because it would make them look worse.) Some also held a grudge against him from Ford's pardoning of Nixon.

The Parakeet · Apr 17, 2009

Well that was sorta tongue in cheek...hence the smilie face. Plus I like to pick at people for forgetting the truly atrocious presidents we've had before.

Obama - Don't know if I agree about them being constitutional, but I'm trying to not derail us.

FDR - We were sorta attacked...so yeah. I'll still give him the freebie. He worked with Churchill...that's like...a hundred points in his favor

.

Wilson - Sherman is a issue for another thread. (We're gonna be busy

). League of Nations was a good idea if it could have worked. He was deeply saddened by its failure. Not like we really lost much going for it though.

GWB - I understood your point, just saying that I didn't think he'd be in the top five. I worded it badly though.
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Carter - Yeah. I actually thought about just putting a list of all the ineffective ones (We had a few good runs of do nothings). He just stands out in my mind. I'm surprised that you haven't heard conservatives trash him. I always heard conservatives saying he was a lame duck. Like I said, I feel sorry for him. They elected him because he wasn't a beltway insider and then got angry when he didn't have the Congressional connections of a beltway insider.

myp · Apr 17, 2009

About FDR, I understand that we were attacked and we should've fought back. Any president would've done it and it is not because of FDR that we won anyway. As for Churchill, again anyone in the White House would've worked with him because they were against Nazi Germany so we were allies.

Sparks · Apr 17, 2009

I dunno about the five worst, but I can see why the ones nominated so far got there.

Bush + Iraq, I am not sure which circle of Hell Dante would assign him, but I know he's heading there. Well, if there is a Hell. Then there is the current financial fiasco that I place at his doorstep.

McKinley + Spanish American War, the beginning of the American empire, turning our backs on freedom and democracy. Oh, and Hawaii too.

Nixon + Watergate, between his leadership and his lackluster cronies, it was pretty close to putting career criminals in charge.

Hoover + depression, A role model for Bush in assisting businesses to create a fine financial mess. Okay, I might put any of a number of useless or maladroit chief executives here. But Hoover rarely makes anyone's list, so I thought I'd do him a favor.

The Parakeet · Apr 17, 2009

Forgot about McKinley. I blame Polk a bit more for the American Empire. He pretty deliberately picked a fight with Mexico earlier to do a land grab. If I remember correctly, that was Lincoln's one big thing as representative. He demanded that Polk prove just where a border conflict happened on American soil (which he couldn't...since it was an American patrol 20 miles inland on Mexican soil).

Sparks · Apr 18, 2009

That good old Polk. Well, he did enlarge the USA by a chunk, almost getting into a war with Great Britain, but gaining what is now the Northwest. And the Mexican American War got the USA a pretty big slice of real estate. While he may have manufactured the spark, the gunpowder was pretty much put there by Santa Ana.

When the US offered statehood and Texas accepted it, Mexico (under Santa Ana) withdrew it's diplomats from America, usually a step prior to war. Texas was viewed as a rebel state by Mexico, one that would be forced to acknowledge it's true allegiance in time. A number of Mexican states had revolted against the rule of Santa Ana and he had put most of them down, but lost the battle in Texas.

So while Polk may have manipulated the situation, he didn't create it. Mexican mishandling of their Texas territory created it.

The Parakeet · Apr 18, 2009

I hope I'm thinking of the right guy. I believe Polk had US soldiers effectively cross into Mexican territory on a patrol (There was a 30 mile tract of land in dispute...Texas thought they owned it and Mexico thought they owned it). They were attacked naturally, and he used it to say that Mexico had attacked us. Lincoln pushed for the Spot Resolution demanding that Polk prove that they were on American soil.

Not necessarily pure evil, but a bit of a bad move. Then again, we did win the war and basically get most of America.

I completely forgot about the Northwest and the "54-40 or fight" movement.

GekiDan · Apr 18, 2009

Sorry, I can't choose five since I only new a couple of US presidents since we are not studied about that in school. Maybe my parents studied about them but in our generation, we did not.

For me George W Bush is the worst US President. Simply because he started that Iraq war. In my opinion, it is when the depression started. Instead of using the money from people's taxes to buy bullets, bombs and other war related merchandises, they should've used it on a more useable things like food, shelter and other necessities.

myp said:
1) Barack Obama- I know it is still early for him, but his policies are very similar to those of FDR's and without a sound currency to fall back on, that could be very dangerous. Furthermore, a lot of his actions are unconstitutional as well.

Well... I can really say it's too early to judge him. Maybe we can wait a year or two so that we can really see what he have done.

BTW, what is Obama gonna do about the Iraq war? Will he continue or end it?

The Parakeet · Apr 18, 2009

It looks like he's just going to see it through to the end. He'll begin troop withdrawals as the Iraqi government picks up the slack. He has started the withdrawals already though.

GekiDan · Apr 19, 2009

The Parakeet said:
It looks like he's just going to see it through to the end. He'll begin troop withdrawals as the Iraqi government picks up the slack. He has started the withdrawals already though.

I'm glad to hear it. Since US is now on recession, I think it's a good move to withdraw and stop the war in Iraq. They'll save more money by not buying more bullets, bombs and arnaments.

DodgeFB · Apr 20, 2009

In my life time it would be between Carter and LBJ. But for different reasons.

Some of them get the blame for things that were as much congress as the president.

Glee · Apr 20, 2009

Glee's List of the Worst Presidents of all Time!

5. Franklin Delano Roovsevelt (Democrat)
-- Perhaps the only President in history to be both the Best and Worst presidents ever. This is probably because of this long reign. The beginning of his presidency, FDR had to deal with the Great Depression. His New Deals did little to help the American economy, and it wasn't until World War II started that FDR became known as a great president.

4 John Fitzgerald Kennedy (Democrat)
-- JFK is on my list as worst presidents simply because he didn't do anything. Like out current President, he won the hearts of the Nation through charisma, but did next to nothing while in office. He was a man of ideas, and in the end, those ideas were enacted by Lyndon Johnson, who history does not give the credit.

3. Martin Van Buren (Democrat)
-- In history Andrew Jackson gets blamed for the Indian Removal Act, but it was carried out during Van Buren's administration. After Jackson had taken the Nation out of an economic crisis, Van Buren quickly brought the nation back. Unwilling to follow Jackson's "take no prisoners" approach, he often got stomped over, making him a weak president.

2. Andrew Johnson (Democrat)
-- Placed only on the ticket because the republican party felt Lincoln needed a Southern Vice President to renew relations with the South after the war, Johnson succeeded Lincoln. Sadly no one could fill Lincoln's shoes, and certainly Johnson wasn't up for the task. He was so hated by Congress he was impeached because of his unwillingness to meet them anywhere on issues.

1. William Henry Harrison (Whig)
-- Elected because he was to bring a Jackson-like presence in the White House, Harrison served as President for only 32 days, dying because of his refusal to keep a speech short. On a cold and rainy day, He gave is inauguration speech without a hat or a coat, exposing himself to the elements for 2 hours.

And those are my picks. The main theme of what makes a bad president in my book is one that doesn't do anything productive in office. Aside from FDR, all of the Presidents listed fit in this category.

The Parakeet · Apr 20, 2009

My only gripe is that Van Buren didn't push us into crisis. Jackson did by killing the National Bank (the crisis was because the wildcat banks printed a whole bunch of currency in the absence of a bank to tell them no).

Other than that, good list.

curious · Apr 21, 2009

I want to argue about Obama (three months and a day, and you are judging already), and Lyndon Johnson, and FDR, but I'll just pick.

George W. Bush - by far the absolute worst president we ever had. He had no respect for the constitution, no sense of morality or doing what was right (an attorney general who boasted about finding ways around the Geneva convention so we could torture people? I was so ashamed.), no respect for scientific fact, and was so stupid that once he managed to take a position on something he couldn't re-evaluate because it was too confusing.

Andrew Johnson - Reconstruction.

Jimmy Carter - Too inexperienced and too idealistic to actually accomplish anything. And, in a position that may seem strange coming from me, we should have bombed the hell out of Iran when the embassy was taken, and treated as an invasion of US territory. I think that would have saved us a lot of trouble down the line.

Hoover - A good facsimile of Nero.

Nixon - A paranoid megalomaniac. Besides, he was kind of creepy. But I would have loved to have had him in office instead of Bush these last eight years. Intelligence does matter, and he was, at least, smart.

myp · Apr 21, 2009

curious said:
I want to argue about Obama (three months and a day, and you are judging already), and Lyndon Johnson, and FDR, but I'll just pick./quote]

Well about Obama, it is more of a projected thing. Usually I would give more time to a leader, but in this case his policies are so absurd, so negligent of the Constitution (you criticize Bush for this, but Obama is not better,) and so off of what this country stands for that I find myself being able to justify this. Many of the theories he believes in have been proven to fail and even if you don't agree with that, you have to admit that his policies furhter limit the freedoms our founding fathers sought for us.

As for LBJ and FDR- they both were similar to Obama in the freedom aspect, they both pushed big government and socialist policies, and really promoted a lot of the government intervention that is creating problems today. Furthermore, FDR extended the Depression with the New Deal (look at my thread here for more on that: http://www.politicalfray.com/showthread.php?t=742 )

deanhills · Apr 22, 2009

myp said:
curious said:

Well about Obama, it is more of a projected thing. Usually I would give more time to a leader, but in this case his policies are so absurd, so negligent of the Constitution (you criticize Bush for this, but Obama is not better,) and so off of what this country stands for that I find myself being able to justify this. Many of the theories he believes in have been proven to fail and even if you don't agree with that, you have to admit that his policies furhter limit the freedoms our founding fathers sought for us.

Click to expand...

Nice to read this, as I felt guilty and was thinking it is just being judgmental, but this is my take too. I liked my cousin's very succinct criticism:

Bail-out schmale-out!
It's all tricks to raise a new socialist democracy.
Hopefully the famous yankee individualist spirit will survive and rise again.

Click to expand...

curious · Apr 23, 2009

deanhills - There is something wrong with the quote system, or the way you ediited it, or something, because the quote attributed to me is what myp wrote, not what I wrote.

What amazes me about all of you Obama bashers is that we had an absolute idiot as president of the US for eight years, and that doesn't seem to bother you much. The other thing that amazes me is that we have had tax cuts for years, and look what happened. We deregulated, and look what happened. Yet still, your recipe for everything is lower taxes and less regulation. You sound like the global warming deniers. "Let's not any facts get in the way" of ideology.

deanhills · Apr 23, 2009

curious said:
deanhills - There is something wrong with the quote system, or the way you ediited it, or something, because the quote attributed to me is what myp wrote, not what I wrote.

Sorry about that Curious. It must have been the dumb operator (being me of course)

About Bush, who is actually already four months history, I think there were quite strong protests against him, but since he is no longer the President, someone else has to be responsible, and I believe that is Obama. He sort of got the job after lots of campaigning. And for any person who likes free markets, as well as prefers as little as possible Government, Obama is the ant-thesis of that as he is obviously going for socialism. Even on an international basis. Wherever he goes he is asking for more regulations, more policing, more government. So that is a major negative for me. Another negative is that he still tends to go out and project himself as doing things differently to Bush (being much better of course), and maybe those times are over and he needs to take responsibility for all that he has inherited. For example he signed a Presidential order for all the prisoners of GITMO to be released, and I have not seen much along the lines of trials being held right now. Have you?

Worst presidents of all time

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