Illegal to fail students if they believe in certain myths as opposed to facts?

Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
The 1st amendment protects free religious practice (minus what has been defined by the courts over the years as not under the 1st amendment). If I make up a religion that rejects everything- perhaps in the shadow of the original Greek Skeptics, then I become unfailable under your system.

Sorry, but I don't care if you choose to brainwash your kids. School is about learning and kids should be taught about the real world. Now when they go home and what their parents tell them there is a whole other story- the parents can (foolishly) just say don't buy that malarkey if they really want to, but the kid needs to still understand what evolution is.

regardless, the school has no right to discriminate against someone based on religion.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
The 1st amendment protects free religious practice (minus what has been defined by the courts over the years as not under the 1st amendment). If I make up a religion that rejects everything- perhaps in the shadow of the original Greek Skeptics, then I become unfailable under your system.

Sorry, but I don't care if you choose to brainwash your kids. School is about learning and kids should be taught about the real world. Now when they go home and what their parents tell them there is a whole other story- the parents can (foolishly) just say don't buy that malarkey if they really want to, but the kid needs to still understand what evolution is.

what is this you talking about brain washing, a law that protects a religious person against discrimination it's not a law to brainwash.

the persecution of religious people cannot be tolerated.
 
Feb 2013
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174
just past the moons of Jupiter
I actually don't think the religious beliefs don't matter, they're very important. I think it's important for the school to respect such beliefs too.

I am glad that this law is being discussed.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
well that has nothing to do with this.

It has everything to do with this. Once again superstition is getting mixed up into the education system and is being presented as something more then superstition. If allowed to continue, the education system will eventually collapse from the anti-intellectual rot and we'll end up looking like the Mideast. Maybe you're cool with this outcome but I like living in a prosperous civilization where people don't get killed for speaking inconvenient truths.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
It has everything to do with this. Once again superstition is getting mixed up into the education system and is being presented as something more then superstition. If allowed to continue, the education system will eventually collapse from the anti-intellectual rot and we'll end up looking like the Mideast. Maybe you're cool with this outcome but I like living in a prosperous civilization where people don't get killed for speaking inconvenient truths.

It has nothing to do with an anti discrimination law
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
now there's a conspiracy

Are students failing for questioning M Theory? No. Are they failing for questioning the feasibility of time travel? No. Are they failing for questioning reality? No! The only 'educational discrimination' happening (and thus the only reason for this bill) is Genesis Creationism, an evolutionary and physical impossibility.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
Are students failing for questioning M Theory? No. Are they failing for questioning the feasibility of time travel? No. Are they failing for questioning reality? No! The only 'educational discrimination' happening (and thus the only reason for this bill) is Genesis Creationism, an evolutionary and physical impossibility.

Again, you are not going to spin this, it isn't a law stating that students must accept creation, not even that creation will be tought. But a law that petty teachers can't fail children who's parents force them to answer this question this way.

It just days the school can't discriminate against a belief.

What do you think will happen if people are allowed to believe this? Again I graduated from a Jesuit school, 95% of my graduating class continued to college, public schools are utter failures compared. Of course only if college is important, it really isn't. I attended theology classes, and had creation tough to me in school. I don't necessarily reject evolution. I have an MBA, other students I graduated with have doctorates from schools like Harvard, which also has theology classes.

So this revert to the dark ages that you have invented is not reality. Public schools are the dark ages, none of the people I have met from public schools know the first thing about history, math, science, and so on.
 
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myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
what is this you talking about brain washing, a law that protects a religious person against discrimination it's not a law to brainwash.

the persecution of religious people cannot be tolerated.

You still haven't addressed where you draw the line...

I don't have a problem calling out religion on something like this because they are wrong. They are denying facts and trying to mislead and manipulate people. And I am confident that in a few hundred years they too will see the "light" and change their antiquated opinion just as they did in the past with things like Earth's position in the universe.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
You still haven't addressed where you draw the line...

I don't have a problem calling out religion on something like this because they are wrong. They are denying facts and trying to mislead and manipulate people. And I am confident that in a few hundred years they too will see the "light" and change their antiquated opinion just as they did in the past with things like Earth's position in the universe.

You are not addressing your OP, this law isn't forcing kids to accept creation, it's simply illegalizing discrimination against religion.

Please call out religious people to your hearts content, but at least live up to your signature.

Defend to the death peoples right to believe, I do.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
You are not addressing your OP, this law isn't forcing kids to accept creation, it's simply illegalizing discrimination against religion.

Please call out religious people to your hearts content, but at least live up to your signature.

Defend to the death peoples right to believe, I do.

We are talking about school here. I said they can believe what they want. What I am saying is if they get evolutionary facts wrong on a test about evolution, they should be penalized for it. You haven't addressed where you draw the line as to where that is acceptable and where it is not. If my religion teaches me 1+1=3, should I automatically pass every math test I get 1+1=2 wrong on?

And you still seem to be implying evolution is a belief- which is just flatout wrong. We aren't talking about a belief vs. a belief here. We are talking about a disproven belief vs. a fact.
 
Dec 2012
554
34
United States
We are talking about school here. I said they can believe what they want. What I am saying is if they get evolutionary facts wrong on a test about evolution, they should be penalized for it. You haven't addressed where you draw the line as to where that is acceptable and where it is not. If my religion teaches me 1+1=3, should I automatically pass every math test I get 1+1=2 wrong on?

And you still seem to be implying evolution is a belief- which is just flatout wrong. We aren't talking about a belief vs. a belief here. We are talking about a disproven belief vs. a fact.

Theory still dominates much of evolution though, but since you call it a fact, might you please give me the theory of the 'missing link?' These is a wide chasm between man and primates, the fossil record calls it a "missing link." Comments?
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Theory still dominates much of evolution though, but since you call it a fact, might you please give me the theory of the 'missing link?' These is a wide chasm between man and primates, the fossil record calls it a "missing link." Comments?

What missing link are you referring to? Look at the genomes- they are quite similar and we already know of and have proof of various, now-extinct species after the divergence- Neanderthals, for example. And theory in science is not the same as theory in colloquial usage- I'm pretty sure we've been over this before. Technically, gravity can still fall under the term theory too as can germ theory, but I highly doubt you will dispute the existence and factual basis of those.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
Theory still dominates much of evolution though, but since you call it a fact, might you please give me the theory of the 'missing link?' These is a wide chasm between man and primates, the fossil record calls it a "missing link." Comments?

Missing link? We have as much hair as chimps (it's just thinner), we have the bipedalism of H. erectus. Most Europeans or European decent people are about 4% Neanderthal. Really, we're the missing link.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
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If you want to get down to the root problem here, it stems from the Evangelical and Fundamentalists Christians who believe in the "literal" translation of the Bible. For example; when the Bible states the world was made in seven days, they believe it was seven, 24 hour days. While most view the Bible in a figurative and allegorical fashion, the literalists use their own hermeneutical approach to interpreting scripture.

This has become a political issue now as the far religious right has all but taken over the Republican party, enforcing their own beliefs into its platform.
What role do you play in the Republican party that gives you such magnificent insights into who controls the party?

If it were true do you thing an establishment republican would have been our nominee?
 
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Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL

Students are not exempt from being tested on textbook material, “but no student in any public school or institution shall be penalized in any way because the student may subscribe to a particular position on scientific theories,” reads the bill​

The sky will not fall. Students still have to take the same tests and pass them. I see this as one more opportunity to have teachable moments in the government run classrooms.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Proof of the Low Information Voter

In an attempt to help our youth not end up thinking as you seem to.

By educating people on factual data, we may be able to temper the damage inherent in an uninformed generation.

Too late. Obama was re-elected by low information voters. I love that phrase. Thank you Rush Limbaugh.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
What is gravity? What is charge?

Lol, ok... I suppose gravity isn't fact either and neither is germ theory... To you Aristotelian gravity and miasma theory are on the same grounds as those respectively too, huh? If not, please explain why with evolution you reject the data and the facts and bring it down to the level of religious belief whereas with gravity and germ theory you don't bring it down to inferior/obsolete theories.
What is gravity?
After you have answered that what is charge?
 
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