Dems may not have the votes to pass the gun ban

misterveritis · Feb 23, 2013

Natural rights are the rights we have because we exist

David said:
Really? By that logic I can do whatever I want and call it a right.

Rights are things you have because you exist. You have a right to life. You can defend yourself because you have that right.
You have the right to enjoy and defend your property.
You have the right to be left alone.

Government does not give you rights. Governments can, and usually do trample on our rights. Occasionally, for a little while an government such as that formed here, at the beginning of this nation recognizes our rights and agrees to protect them. In the United States that time has past.

Unless both society and the gov't agrees with me, it wouldn't end well. 'Rights' are social norms backed by law which is why owning slaves once once a right while today not being a slave is considered a right. As society and gov't policy changes, so do rights. The only constant rights are things like not getting murdered or robbed but this has more to do with continued relevance (nobody likes getting killed or mugged no matter what time they live in) then any BS 'natural right'.

But by all means, live in your fantasy land while you still can. By the desperate tone you have, I suspect you're starting to notice your worldview collapsing.

I think the source of your confusion is your apparent belief that you do not have a right unless it is recognized by government.

Natural rights are simply the rights one has because of one's existence. They are worth fighting for when governments refuse to protect and cherish them.

misterveritis · Feb 23, 2013

tecoyah said:
The way our rights function is quite fascinating. One interesting example would be the inevitable result of those believing the government cannot give or take away your rights. I guarantee that should they decide to act upon this belief in a way they seem to be condoning....they will very quickly find how completely said rights are taken away.

Most rights are removed in Prison.

Rights can be trampled on by states. That has been the general state of humankind with but a few exceptions. The American Experiment appears to be drawing to a close. Rights are trampled by an all powerful state. The usual suspects applaud at the beginning of the tyranny.

Polydectes · Feb 23, 2013

misterveritis said:
Rights can be trampled on by states. That has been the general state of humankind with but a few exceptions. The American Experiment appears to be drawing to a close. Rights are trampled by an all powerful state. The usual suspects applaud at the beginning of the tyranny.

you can't talk sense into somebody that doesn't want it.

David · Feb 23, 2013

misterveritis said:
Rights can be trampled on by states. That has been the general state of humankind with but a few exceptions. The American Experiment appears to be drawing to a close. Rights are trampled by an all powerful state. The usual suspects applaud at the beginning of the tyranny.

Is it my right to own a slave? Is it my right to take what I want if I he the power to do so (right of conquest)? Until about 200 years ago, those were 'rights', wars were fought to defend them. But please continue to ignore the social norms that define rights and instead argue about some non-existent tyrannical gov't, I find your near incoherent stammering to be entertaining.

misterveritis · Feb 24, 2013

David said:
Is it my right to own a slave? Is it my right to take what I want if I he the power to do so (right of conquest)? Until about 200 years ago, those were 'rights', wars were fought to defend them. But please continue to ignore the social norms that define rights and instead argue about some non-existent tyrannical gov't, I find your near incoherent stammering to be entertaining.

The wonderful thing about rights is that they exist because you do. Your rights stand against the power of others. Your desire to enslave prevents another from his or her right to life, liberty and property. It is clear that you believe you have the right to own slaves. That is part of what progressive income tax rates are all about. You want to another to work while you gain the benefit. You believe it is your right to take another's property and use it for your selfish purposes.

A government that grants a right to own slaves is a government that is trampling on the rights of some for the benefit of others. If that were not so then why did we give up our "right" to own slaves?

All governments tend toward tyranny. Ours was designed to arrive more slowly than others. There will always be people who believe as you do. That is why tyranny always comes before the end.

David · Feb 24, 2013

misterveritis said:
The wonderful thing about rights is that they exist because you do. Your rights stand against the power of others. Your desire to enslave prevents another from his or her right to life, liberty and property. It is clear that you believe you have the right to own slaves. That is part of what progressive income tax rates are all about. You want to another to work while you gain the benefit. You believe it is your right to take another's property and use it for your selfish purposes.

A government that grants a right to own slaves is a government that is trampling on the rights of some for the benefit of others. If that were not so then why did we give up our "right" to own slaves?

All governments tend toward tyranny. Ours was designed to arrive more slowly than others. There will always be people who believe as you do. That is why tyranny always comes before the end.

Well I must say, in all the off the mark replies I've seen in my years posting that is near the top.

misterveritis · Feb 25, 2013

David said:
Well I must say, in all the off the mark replies I've seen in my years posting that is near the top.

There is no hope for you. Have a nice day.

David · Feb 25, 2013

misterveritis said:
There is no hope for you. Have a nice day.

Says the guy who thinks I was arguing for slavery...

misterveritis · Feb 26, 2013

Is it slavery or involuntary servitude?

David said:
Says the guy who thinks I was arguing for slavery...

Would you feel better if I described it as involuntary servitude? What else could it be if the state insists that I work for another's benefit for two days out of every five?

David · Feb 26, 2013

misterveritis said:
Would you feel better if I described it as involuntary servitude? What else could it be if the state insists that I work for another's benefit for two days out of every five?

Who says you have to work for others? Civilization requires that at least some people work or the good of the whole to function but anyone individual is free to sit on their ass and do nothing if they want. They'd become social outcasts and be declared deadbeats but you don't have to work building, distributing and selling things for others to use and benefit from.

Stonewall · Feb 26, 2013

David said:
Who says you have to work for others? Civilization requires that at least some people work or the good of the whole to function but anyone individual is free to sit on their ass and do nothing if they want. They'd become social outcasts and be declared deadbeats but you don't have to work building, distributing and selling things for others to use and benefit from.

They wouldn't become social outcasts, they'd become society's responsibility, their failures blamed on race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, or some other discrimnation preventing them from having what they want. They become 'victims' and thus carried.

Stonewall · Feb 26, 2013

tecoyah said:
The way our rights function is quite fascinating. One interesting example would be the inevitable result of those believing the government cannot give or take away your rights. I guarantee that should they decide to act upon this belief in a way they seem to be condoning....they will very quickly find how completely said rights are taken away.

Most rights are removed in Prison.

Our Founders acted on just such a belief, many did go to prison. I can offer some great reads.

Dems may not have the votes to pass the gun ban

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